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French intellectual: The problem with Brussels is that it is difficult to exclude countries like Hungary from the European Union
"Viktor Orban's system is a reactionary authoritarianism, to which is added the problem of corruption, because the prime minister's clique has also stolen European funds."
This is Daniel Cohn-Bendit's description of the Hungarian prime minister's vision, as the Budapest Pride Parade takes place despite bans.
The former Franco-German Green MP, a key figure in the 1968 Parisian movement, calls the “child protection narrative” used by Orban “ridiculous,” arguing that it “means nothing.”
Mr. Cohn-Bendit, what do you think about this demonstration?
"The ban imposed on this march shows Orbán's authoritarianism and retrograde, i.e. reactionary, concept. Not even Donald Trump dared to ban the Pride Parade in the United States, and we should never say never. His hatred of homosexuals is incomprehensible. Behind these arguments lies a concept of society that is largely outdated. The same thing happens in Italy with Giorgia Meloni."
But the Italian government does not ban the Pride Parade.
"This is because your society is more advanced. Orban is based on a much more authoritarian and monolithic system than the Italian one. But the Hungarian prime minister and the Italian prime minister are similar in their concept of society and in the speeches they make about the family."
In addition to the protesters, there were also far-right militants on the streets of Budapest yesterday, who tried to block the march.
"Orbán mobilized his hordes, as did Mussolini and Hitler. And as did Trump. How else can you describe those who attacked the US Capitol in 2021? They represent the armed fascist wing of a retrograde ideology."
Can Budapest's hostility to LGBTQ+ rights be read as a challenge to the EU?
"For Brussels, the real problem is to bring figures like Orban or Slovakia's President Robert Fico back to the table on the issue of sanctions against Russia. This is the EU's big struggle."
The Hungarian case also shows how the protection of human rights and freedoms is a topic on which Europe still has a lot to do.
"It is the result of the failure of the European Constitution, even though we have the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights."
How should Europe behave towards Hungary?
“From all this history, a problem emerges that no one has thought about until now. We have seen with Brexit that a country can leave the European Union through a vote, but how can a member state be expelled for failure to respect fundamental rights? It is not clear how such a procedure would be implemented. It is so difficult to do that leaders like Orban and Fico can allow themselves to act as they please.”
Are you arguing that a country like Hungary should be excluded from the EU?
"I have long believed that those who withdraw from the treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights should be excluded. It is not possible to build a Europe with such divergences."
But dialogue is also necessary in the EU.
"You can't be for or against the rule of law because it's no longer a political opinion! Countries have agreed on a certain way of how the EU will function. The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union must be respected by all members. What should we do if tomorrow a country bans the Jewish religion? Should we talk to it?"
So, do you think Ursula von der Leyen is not tough enough on Budapest?
"The majority of the European Parliament is very weak. The President of the European Commission is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a whole structure that does not dare to fundamentally defend the values of the EU."
Speaking of rights, in the US the Supreme Court has given the green light to abolish ius soli, thus giving Trump the green light. What kind of moment are we living in?
"In the West there is a problem with the protection of the rule of law. The United States is just another example. Liberal and open democracy does not consist only of implementing the majority vote. There are other factors such as the law and the separation of powers. But Orbán's concept does not respect the rule of law. His concept of democracy is based on the fact that everyone should align with the majority, even minorities."
During the May protests in Paris, would you have ever imagined a similar situation in the West almost 60 years later?
"Absolutely not. We would never have believed in the possibility of having a president like Trump in the United States."
In your opinion, what are the causes of this conservative trend?
"It is a phenomenon linked to people's anxiety and the complexity of the events that are happening all over the world. Thus, people close themselves in a certain ideology, believing that with such regression it is possible to better protect themselves. There are historical moments, such as those of the Weimar Republic or Italy in the 1930s, in which a failure of society occurs that leads to an authoritarian and retrograde response."/La Stampa
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